I have long touted the wisdom of a hedge against a severe inflation and thus the downward plunge of the dollar to be investing in silver coins. This is not something that I came up with out of thin air. I read a few economic news letters. The market report for today, January 15, is that gold prices have reached 894. an ounce, a sure indication that the value (?) of the paper currency has dropped again. Money goes down.....gold goes up. There is a ratio of gold prices to silver of 1.40 but that hasn't happened yet. In survival tips there is an affordable and more liquid alternative to buying gold: silver coins. Now selling for 'junk silver' which merely means circulated silver coins of under a dollar face value; ie: dimes, quarters and half-dollars minted before 1964 when the silver coins were taken out of circulation because the new coins were not 99.9% silver. Junk silver sells online from various sources for $12.50 for a dollar face value. In other words: 4 quarters are worth $12.50......sound silly? Well two months ago those coins were selling for$10.50...a better return than from a CD or MM....there is a site where you can actually buy small increments of this silver. At the same time Peace dollars, minted in 1922 are now selling for $19.75, up from $18.00 two months ago.....not much? Well the dollars that could purchased in increments of twenty, costing $360.00 two months ago: now worth $395. Meanwhile the real cost of food has inflated by 50.1% So if you think your food and dining out is costing more you are right.
From my favorite economic newsletter, The Mogambo Guru, comes this forecast that he gleaned from experts on monetary and investment forecasts. James Turk of the Free Market Gold and Money Report makes this prediction.
"And as for silver? I'm glad you asked! He thinks, "Silver will clear $30 in 2008, as the (gold-silver) ratio falls below 40. A $1200 gold price and 40-to-1 ratio puts the price of silver at $30. Silver is the best play for 2008, but silver is never a smooth ride."
"And if you think that silver could go to its rough 15-to-1 long-term ratio to gold, then a $1,200 per ounce gold price would mean an $80 per ounce silver"
How much will it go up? Since you asked, I will merely quote James Turk of the Freemarket Gold & Money Report, who fearlessly forecasts that in 2008, "Gold will finally break into 4-digits, which will be an event that gains worldwide attention. I think the high in 2008 will be $1,500, and the low will be $780."
"Add to the above monetary problems a new worry - counterparty risk. This risk was highlighted by the bank-run at Northern Rock, and the depositor withdrawals presently underway in some institutional money-market funds in the US. Funds and more financial institutions will collapse in 2008, further highlighting this growing counter-party risk. Gold will benefit from this turmoil because it is the only money without counterparty risk - its value is not based on the promise of some financial institution", and that, "This attribute of gold will become more widely recognized in 2008, significantly increasing worldwide demand for gold."
!
He doesn't want to get stuck in one of my wild conspiracy theories, and to change the subject by waving a shiny object in front of my eyes, he says that one highly unusual thing is silver's chart pattern of an "upward pointing flag", which he says is significant because "Upward pointing flags are rare. They illustrate unusual strength. In effect, there is so much demand for silver, every dip is bought. Buyers (particularly the shorts) therefore get anxious, and don't wait for a price retracement. They just keep buying, which describes what's happening. Silver is being accumulated".
So, my good friends, take a look at the site where you can daily get a list of retail prices of precious metals, click on this link and bookmark it. And, the next time you feel that you have to have the newest electronic gadget that sells for above $395. instead buy twenty silver Peace dollars. No moving parts..
http://www.ccsilver.com/
Quoted article are from the Mogambo Guru: Richard Daughty is general partner and COO for Smith Consultant Group, serving the financial and medical communities, and the editor of The Mogambo Guru economic newsletter - an avocational exercise to heap disrespect on those who desperately deserve it.
The Mogambo Guru is quoted frequently in Barron's, The Daily Reckoning and other fine publications.
 | I have to admit i totally agree with this, just last year we noticed the increase in the cost of gold ourselves as when we go on vacation to Turkey we always buy gold, and last year we thought it was a lot more expensive than we usually pay, we use the same jeweller every time we go and thought to ourselves that maybe he was being complacent until asking around and everyone's gold was a lot more than the previous years! we were told it was then at the highest price in 16 years! Silver had also risen sharply in price, but we rarely buy silver! silver is a more affordable commodity to purchase in bulk and i can't remember it dropping in price like shares etc do. Always seems a safe bet!
Thanks for sharing Kitty |
 | Gold is going up silver is going up and the dollers is in flames. Food is going up to Gas to. By spring over 4.00$ a gallon....WOW! I love it..Everything that goes up must come down. |
 | And everything that goes down, must go up. |
 | Would be nice if th8ings would stablize. |
| and everything goes down faster than up..LOL SELL SELL SELL |
| That may be possible if we could end this war, pull our troops home, go solar, re open closed factories. |
| Give it away, give it away |
| End the war YES! 7.8 TRILLON DOLLERS
JIM you hit it right on END THE WAR. |
| 7 trillion 9 trillion and up we go at some point we will see wall street go down and the houseing will to.....wight..wight..there it goes |
 | Ah. Very interesting, Kitty. Thanks for the research and for pulling it all together here. |
 | "...Would be nice if things would stablize."
Yes. I agree.
It'd also be 'nice' if there was a Santa Claus, a Tooth Fairy, a benevolent 'god', and half-dozen other mythical figures. It'd be 'nice' if there wasn't any war, disease, or predatory-behavior among us humans.
Unfortunately, some of us live in the real world, and that's why this post, among other things.
I was royally trashed for saying last October that I didn't share the Fed's enthusiasm about the economy; that we were headed for a severe recession and perhaps a depression, all due to the house-of-cards and sleight-of-hand built and practiced by every administration since Carter.
We saw a similar situation in 1980; gold went to around $1,000/ounce; the Hunt brothers tried to 'corner' silver at the same time; we had inter-month inflation of 20% (January; 1980) - then Fed-chief Volcker throttled the money supply to (1) pay for Vietnam and (2) beat inflation (which, in the end, were related in direct cause-and-effect fashion).
The result was an eighteen-month recession which was the worst we'd seen since the Depression of the 1930's.
We're there again, and all the 'markers' are there.
Me?
I've got a stash of silver and Krugerrands against a time when I might just need them.
It's looking more and more like I might. I hope not.
|
| I now how to grow food I might give you some for your silver....LOL |
| Sage, I know how to grow food, also. I do it every year. I also can and preserve. I'm a pretty handy fellow, and the Hilltop allows me the space to do so. I'm fortunate also to live in an area with abundance which may be readily obtained.
I may do all right. It's my city-brethren for whom I worry.... |
| Aww! I see the barter system being implemented. Good for all of you. |
| This is inspiring, to see all my smart friends agree on this. I know how to grow food, can't afford Kruggerands, and we are moving back into our house as a motor home isn't practical when gas will be at least 4 bucks a gallon...and maybe scarce. Also you can grow food in a yard easily in the cooler months in AZ. Barter got people through the depression in part. Jim and Sage are right...end the war, don't cut taxes and we will renew the economy. |
 | I've been watching videos on yahoo regarding the recession and how Washington is trying to rememdy it. What I found most obsurd was the thought process of cutting taxes for the low and middle income group STRICTLY BECAUSE THEY ARE MOST LIKELY TO TURN AROUND AND SPEND IT!!!! Now, isn't that what got us into trouble in the first place?...spending money on stupid stuff?? Or spending too much to begin with? We are going to see our economy fall as a country because too much of our wealth is tied up in businesses that have nothing to do with neccessity.
If adjusting my spending belt causes businesses to go under, then they can just go under. My household will survive and come out properly adjusted for long term success. How come the feds can't figure that one out? |
| As for the benefits of living in the city during a recession...
My husband and I lived on a piece of land that we farmed on and raised chickens up until about 3 months ago. We moved back to the city because living that far out of town and from work was eating up any extra money we could have invested into the farming venture. The cost of energy was, and still is, rising. This put alot of burden on the prospect of watering, heating and processing home grown food supplies.
Living in the metro area allows us easier access to local businesses, public transportation, recycling facilities, and a greater opprotunity to find extra employment. Instead of driving 40 miles each way to get food stuffes and personal supplies, I can walk in pretty much any direction and obtain those things. I can put food in my pantry instead of spending it on getting there.
I still have a small patio I can grow normally expensive produce items on in quantities that are sufficient for the two of us. I can install a grow light in the front room in a corner to grow herbs and such that are normally out of our affordabiltiy range.
This is also where personal talent that can be used to earn extra cash or barter with comes in handy. Both my husband and I are willing and able to do physical work...something alot of Americans today have a hard time grasping because it is "below" them to do such things. My husband can cook. I can sew. We have ways and means to make money if the rest of the economy takes a dump. Plus, we already work for the place that alot more people will wind up going to shop if a recession kicks in.
I think that the businesses that will get hit hardest during this upcoming recession are those that deal in things we don't really need. People will continue to have to buy clothes, food, gas, and shelter. They will no longer see cable or take out pizza as a daily life occurance or neccecity (sp?). Resorts, casinos, other places where money is spent to make one feel "important" or "powerful", or "up with the jones" will fall to the floor. It will be "in" to be self conservative. It will be a blessing to be resourceful. You will see a big difference between those families that can adapt, and those that can't. |
| There is a problem with the city-scenario you describe, Moon.
The logistics of getting food into a city are frightful. While the cost of energy is rising, it's well worth your time to consider making friends with someone like me who lives on the outskirts and has a patch of land where growing things is a possibility.
I fear for what's coming, because Americans gave up, by and large, working together in the '60's - we've become far too self-centered to do for ourselves and each other.
While any business based on disposable income will 'fall to the floor', there'll be room for people who are handy, if things get that bad.
As to the Fed's solutions - -they're all short-term, by design. The problem is that our entire economy is based on consumption - -produce; then turn around and consume, rather than export. In fact, we consume the produce of other countries as well (it's why our trade-deficit is so high). The only thing the government can do is to cut taxes and put those funds back into the economy for more consumption; the only thing the Fed can do is to cut interest rates so more money can flow back into the economy to stimulate more consumption.
It's a house of cards - -and it's ready to come down in a pretty spectacular fashion.
Think Germany in 1923, folks.
|
| Thanks for your response, Astra....
My husband and I are highly aware of the logistics behind getting produce and goods into the city...he holds a logistical position in the warehouse and is responsible for coordinating all the outbound freight.
As for making friends with people that have land to grow things on, we have a few of them. We take our green refuse to one of them so that he can turn it into compost. In return, this spring we are going to coordinate our combined resources to plant a garden and share the work to get it done.
There are also alot of local growers that bring their goods into the city outskirts to sell. One would be amazed at what this state is actually capable of growing. And it does help to be in a city located dead center over two major highways that cross each other. We are not "out of the way" in terms of the transportation veins of this country.
And no, not one single person has all the answers to the issues that will arise from a recession, or possible depression, but if we work together and share ideas, we may actually get through this in a positive way. I may have an idea that you hadn't thought of that proves to be an answer to a question you couldn't solve. Vice versa. I think this may be the thing that brings families back together, out of neccecity for survival. I am already prepared to bring my mother into our house, both for her sake and ours. As for my brothers and sisters, we are too far seperated mentally and idealisticly to be able to work together. But then again, you never know.
As for the fed's....we need to start looking to ourselves to fix the economy. It means taking persoanl responsibilty for the state of one's own economy. By one's own economy, I mean your own personal income, spending habits, and preperations for the future. We rely too much on the government to solve our problems from welfare to social security. It shows in how big business is urgeing the governmen to do something about the impending recession instead of taking account their own actions. The housing industry is not going to lower it's prices...it is turning to the government to lower interest rates. It would make more sense for the market to adjust itself according to what the market, aka the people, can bear.
And for investing...invest in yourself. The only reason the market wants you to invest your money into ANYTHING is so they can play with it. IRA's, 401k's, CD's, MM accounts...you are handing your money over to someone else expecting them to be responsible with it and then complain when the market crashes and you lose everything.
I'm rambling here, I suppose. But this whole thing is absurd, from the way we got into it to the way the government is proposing to get us out of it. And by us, do we really mean us? The average Joe family that works hard everyday to bring home food and put a roof over our heads? Or do they mean big business that can't survive unless we squander our money?
Best of luck to us all. |
| Moon, I agree it begins with us - but we're also a minority (anyone who reads either my, your, or Kitty's blogs are a minority-by-definition).
The vast majority of Joe and Josephine Sixpack in the U.S. do not care about the consequences of their actions. Wal-Mart gets the majority of their shopping dollars; they drive a gas-guzzling SUV or truck with no need therefor - in sum, they have lifestyles which are unsupportable.
They've been 'educated' to believe that their way is Right.
Anyone who tells them that Americans consume 300% of the resources used by their third-world counterparts is branded a Communist (or, today, I suppose, a 'terrorist' and a traitor - I know I've been called both for pointing this out).
I'll continue to live responsibly - as I know you will, also -- but we're swimming against the tide to even pretend we could influence the rest of the country.
I fear the best we can do is to batten our own hatches and watch it happen. |
| Those who have lived through a recession.....there have been many....knows that in two weeks everything can go crash...we have been that close before. The first group to go will be those who are making gajillions in the financial markets, then those who have no concept of what 'work' is and how to do it. I remember, being a little kids in the early thirties and going with my mother to take a toaster to the electrical repair shop. My mother commented that he was the only one making money.....because he knew how to fix things. Conspicuous consumption will disappear. We used to keep refrigerators for many years, never thought we had to replace one that was still working. If you can fix things and are willing to work doing it, you will survive. Sadly, with none, or very little education in this field your generation may be the last that can fix anything. I am assuming that you Will and Kathleen are boomers. |
| I'm a 'boomer', by definition -- and it saddens me how much things have changed.
My Dad told me that "I'd need this someday", when he'd drag me away from something he was doing to learn a basic home-repair skill (whether it was carpentry, helping him lay tile, etc.) At the time I thought he was a killjoy. Only later did I really know that what he was doing was teaching me real skills which, when combined with a real education, could be of great value later in life. |
| I wonder how some people will cook without a microwave or a gas grill?
Does people even know how to preserve food anymore? |
| I do, Midnight - but I'm viewed as a freak by some for having this knowledge.
|
| I do too.
I wonder about the younger generation though. |
| I have grandchildren in their twenties who haven't got a clue how to cook a meal from scratch. There is so much takeout and using prepared foods to produce meals the idea that you could cook macaroni and cheese without a box is a new idea to them. All of my children know how to cook, the problem is that there is no time for them to teach their kids to cook or sew. So much time is spent just earning enough to keep up with the demands of consumerism and to put food in the home that there is no time to prepare it properly. Many, many children have never tasted 'real food'. When they don't like vegetables, it is because canned vegetables have no flavor...and little nutrition except sodium. Recently when I was ill I found myself buying expensive frozen meals and my potassium levels dropped and blood pressure went up. I wonder if the ADHD epidemic is a mineral deficiency. Going back to growing and preparing real food could be a boon to the children of this generation. Maybe what this country needs is a depression. |
Comment deleted at the request of the author.
 | I know how to cook and can and so do all the kids. I doubt my grandkids could do any of this. Problem now is I am not able to do it. Heard on the news tonight that government was talking tax rebates and CUTTING CORPORATE TAXES. Now isn't that an answer for you? |
 | Many comments.... Kitty; Recent evidence shows that the MSG in prepackaged meals produces brain chemistry equal to someone with ADHD, that is, MSG will chemically induce ADD. MSG comes in many forms. I won't list it here, but here's a link. Be prepared to read ALOT of labels. http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.htmlAstra: If there is anyone who has an idea of the cost of logistics, I'd say I do. It surely isn't cheap, but, of course, the company will pass these costs onto the consumer. That's the way it is. And if xfer of cost is too high for consumers, then the next thing a company will do to survive is skeletonize the crew to reduce costs to make it consumer attractive. Whoever is at the top sure as hell won't sacrifice his salary. Making food from scratch.... I got into a 'discussion' with my daughter who wanted to be a chef. I asked her what her favorite thing was to cook. She likes Italian. I asked which method of cooking she preferred; gas or electricity. She said "microwave". Now, I know most of us who know how to cook from scratch just got a giggle. Here's something to make you stop.... http://www.relfe.com/microwave.htmlKitty; your potassium levels were likely due to warming your frozen meal in a microwave. I haven't used a microwave in years, let alone OWN one, at least consistently. I do admit though, that I made a batch of salmon chowder and froze the leftovers. I took some to work and heated it just barely. The taste difference was remarkable. I could not believe that something that tasted so good before could come out so g-dd-mn bland. Try it. Take a steak, cut it in half. Cook one using a broiler or what not and microwave the other half. Be prepared to throw out your microwave. Kitty; that your kids are spending so much time 'making ends meet' means quite a bit. Do your grandkids have an XBox? MP3 players? Do they own all their appliances and furniture? These are the "demands of consumerism", as you put it. But this isn't "necessity consumerism", this is "luxury consumerism". Tell them to ditch the XBox, turn off the MP3, pull the plug on the television, and teach the kids something useful besides eye-finger coordination. Not trying to tell you what to do, Kitty, but if the demands of consumerism are keeping your kids or grandkids or great grandkids from making ends meet such that they are unable to give their children a 'real world' education then your family is sabotaging their ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome. It will be a sad day when a generation of Americans die from starvation because they can't cook over a fire. Not just a stove, but a fire. How many of these kids know how to make fire without a lighter? Use gasoline? When Kathy and I go backpacking, I carry at least 4 different ways to start fire; a lighter (yes, I'm cheating!) matches, flint, and a magnifying glass. I will be able to make fire. How many kids nowadays know how to improvise a shelter? Hunt? Fish? Use a real firearm without shooting off their own foot? Do they know how to amend soil so that something can grow well? How to find water? How to collect water? All these things are extremely important skills to know if electricity suddenly becomes a thing of the past. Oi! I'm taking up too much of your time. What I've noticed is the more conveniences we purchase to save ourselves more time, the less time we have. One of them paradoxes, I guess. |
 | hmmm.
Well, I'm in no position to be buying up precious metals, if I did I could not make my current bills.
Have you seen anything on Credit Unions? Are they in as much trouble as the banks? |
| I would like a Microwave...Ok not realy ewww.But do want an Xbox360 I think they are just a little to much money for just yet....If they are not selling it at the goodwill I am not buying it.SomedayFor now it's cards at the table with hot tea...Ummmy green tea with just a little honey.As for buying gold or silver I spend most of my dimes on seeds and outdoor tools....... |
| David I am allergic to MSG....salt sensitivity, an inherited body chemistry, causes those who have the condtion to have headaches, hives, etc. from MSG. As a diabetic I read every label on any food I ingest to control my blood sugar. In the ten years since I was diagnosed I have always been in the ideal range. I did heat the dinners, Lean Cusisine and Amy's in the microwave, you are correct on that. Chuck and I have always been avid campers, and all of our kids camped growing up. Most were Boy or Girl Scouts, my husband and I were both leaders of troops, myself for seventeen years. We also lived on three acres on a hill above the town and kept chickens, grew gardens and had ponies. Ponies teach you nothing except that ponies bite. The grandchildren who have those goodies you discussed, got them as gifts from grandparents; the older ones bought them for themselves. Sageman, don't spend the silver dimes. Tools last for generations; my husband has a hammer older than any of you I am guessing. |
| What a little conversation we have going here;) Good stuff.
I was in the Girl Scouts, and David in the Boy Scouts. The skills we learned in those groups have enabled us to pursue the things that would help one survive "rougher" times. For reasons discussed before, I refrained from becoming a troop leader as an adult, but hope that the Scouts are doing well.
If I had a dollar to invest into my future survivablity.....mmmmm....I would invest it into my skills that I could barter for other goods. Take my quilting for instance. Just last night I hit up a sale to stock up on batting. It may not seem logical to most, but I felt it was a sound investment in my ability to make goods to trade or sell.
As for MSG....discovered that that substance was responsible for most of my "food allergies" and reoccuring reactions. Since I have eliminated most sources of it (they seem to be hidden in some products), my reactions have lessened substantially.
"Maybe what this country needs is a depression."...quite possibly. A "reset" button of sorts.
As for the taxbreaks that Bush is trying to get going, or actually they are being called "rebates", to families in the low to middle income bracket? Talk about wasting tax payer money. Let me pay my taxes, give them to someone else as a rebate so they can go spend it on some new rims for their worthless lowered truck. As for David and I getting a rebate and what it would be used for...paying back taxes already owed because we don't any "tax shelters". That rebate would pay off what we owe, and put $45 a month back into our pockets to send to another creditor...his student loan that we have not been able to pay off. Not a dime of it will be spent on "consumer goods". But if he wants to give it out, we'll take it.
Astra...your dad dragging you off to teach you skills...good work;) I used to despise family camping trips when I was a teenager. Looking back, I learned alot on those outings. Not just to appreciate mother nature, but hunting, setting up "camp", surviving without the comforts of home so to speak.
If you all could invest some money in your own survival, what would you invest it in? Just a thought. |
| I would invest in building planting beds in the back yard of our home, and in good loam trucked in to fill them. Then: seeds of things that I know grow well in Yuma. Lettuce, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, green onions and other root veggies. We have an eight month growing season before it gets too hot...and then if we put up a shade cloth structure we could grow for another four. We have more than one hundred miles of irrigation canals here and there are catfish and talapia in them..and easy access...so fishing gear for Chuck and an umbrella for his folding chair. The batting was a good investment; you are fortunate to have such a lucrative talent. |
| Funny (not haha funny) about your tax trouble Kathleen. In the early 90s we were audited on a five year old tax return and ended up with a payment...by this time we were retired and on a fixed income. Still paying! |
| If I could invest a dollar in survivability, what would I do with it? Good question. On a worst case scenario assumption (yeah, I know.. spell "assume") I would purchase ammo or a really good knife. I've been a survivalist type since the Cold War, when "Mutual Assured Destruction" was the mantra of the day. Since then, I've been learning all the basic survival skills possible. One cannot assume (there I go again) that we will have homes to live in, water to drink, or electricity to power our lives. Your home is prone to a neat little government clause called "Right of Emminent Domain" where they can take it from you, pretty much at their whim. Now, with Executive Order 10999 (allows the govt to seize all food resources and farms, and unfortunately, Kitty, that means your investment), the Right of Emminent Domain can't be questioned like many lawsuits I've heard of from California when they expanded Ontario Int'l Airport. Executive Order 10998 allows the govt to take your car. E.O. 10997 allows the govt to seize control of energy resources (oil, gas, elect., etc). E.O. 11000 allows the govt to organize the population into "work brigades".... I could go on, but to simplify matters, please enlighten yourselves.... http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htmDon't need an atom bomb to screw everything up... just power hungry people with the ability to make laws. So, no farm, no home, no car, no reliance on energy, no wind or solar... Everything above and beyond a good knife is dead weight, except a firearm. Like I said before, I carry a few means to make fire, and I can build anything out of nothing. How does the saying go? "I've done some much with so little for so long that I can practically do anything with nothing". I have fishing poles, tent, sleeping bags... pretty much anything I need to survive, but I have to, woodcraft is my next option. I will not submit myself to being put into an Amerikan version of Aushwitz. If we get caught, we will fight tooth and nail against our captors... what a sad day that will be when my friends and neighbors are my oppressive captors. |
| By the way... Executive Order 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.
Economic or financial crisis....
I'll just let that one sink in for a bit. Thanks Kitty for a good forum! |
| That was a good link Kathleen. I went and read it. We have purchased MRE's from an outdoor gear magazine, that will last about six days...we should actually buy more, as they aren't expensive...they're in the basement area of our motor home which is cool and dry. Basically, the information on this site is a lot like a book we had when we were scouting and camping that had instructions for building different sorts of tents, cooking in a paper bag on a coffee can stove and a lot of other things that were useful. We used this book a lot for many years. I hope others will follow your link. |
| Another excellent book for learning tents, camping, and whatnot is a book titled "Camping and Woodcraft" by Horace Kephart. (University of Tennessee Press, ISBN: 0-87049-556-9) The original print date is 1917, but the concepts and methodology are time tested (lol...obviously) as you'll find the same things in your newest Boy Scout manual. It's a pretty thick book that goes through firemaking, dressing game, what wood is best for what, etc. Lots of information with some anecdotal evidence. Good book.
Under the assumption that everything doesn't go quite ALL the way to Hell, another useful book is "Preserving Food Without Freezing or Canning" by The Gardeners and Farmers of Terre Vivante (Chelsea Green Publishing Co. ISBN:978-1-933392-59-2)
Happy Camping! |
| I think maybe we would feel more confident if we all still had workable survival skills....if we hadn't been so ingrained into modern life. Sometime's I think that those that live simply, say third world country type folk are going to make it through any catastrophe better than we ever imagine we would. |
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